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The Doing Business in Bentonville Podcast
To create an ecosystem that connects leaders of all kinds – industry, community, student, educational, civic, investment and entrepreneurial – to help overcome Omnichannel Retail barriers through exclusive, insight-rich content.
The Doing Business in Bentonville Podcast
Ep. 134 - Don’t Let Your Business Die with You
Too many great local businesses fade not from lack of customers, but from lack of a plan. We sat down with Doug and Anne, buyer-operators on a mission to preserve the heart of their community by acquiring small businesses. We explored how owners can exit on their terms without losing what makes their company special.
We start with the landscape: thousands of boomer-owned companies in Northwest Arkansas and beyond are nearing transition, yet most don’t have a documented succession plan. Doug and Anne break down the gap between intention and reality: 70% of owners want to pass the business to their kids, but only about 30% make it happen, and show how a thoughtful three-year runway changes everything. From choosing the path (family succession, management buyout, or third-party sale) to assembling the right local team for valuation, lending, legal, and tax, they map a clear, humane process that protects jobs and community identity.
Then we get practical. They explain how tax strategies that minimize profit today can depress a future sale price, why keeping your manager is critical to continuity, and how simple adjustments, cleaner books, documented SOPs, fair market leases, and stable leadership, raise multiples and buyer confidence. We also talk about culture and leadership development: growing managers who can run the day-to-day, reducing key-person risk, and honoring the brand promise customers rely on. Anne shares why championing women-owned businesses matters, and how inclusive ownership structures and mentorship can widen opportunity and strengthen resilience.
If you’re a small business owner eyeing retirement, feeling burnout, or simply wanting to protect your legacy, this conversation offers an actionable roadmap and real encouragement.
Subscribe for more conversations with operators, founders, and community builders, and share this episode with an owner who needs a nudge to start their plan. Want us to dive deeper or help you think through options? Leave a review, send a note, and tell us what transition questions you want answered next.
Well, hello everyone. I'm AV Wilson. Welcome to Doing Business in Bittenville. It's great to have you back again. And again, before I jump into our wonderful guest today, I want to say to all of our viewers, thank you because of you. I just got some new data this morning, and you're just blowing it off the walls, listening to us and sharing it. They just told me this morning that we had 70,000 views in the last few weeks, which is wonderful. Thank you. Again, you know I'm on LinkedIn. You can message me and I'll message you back. But thank you. Now let's get straight into what we're going to do today. Okay, I met two wonderful people at an event here in Bentonville, Arkansas recently. And after meeting them and chatting with them, I said, let's do a podcast. Doug and Ann Kirsten, welcome to Doing Business in Bentonville. Thank you. Thank you. Wow. I will tell you, I'm so elated to have you here because of our brief conversation previously and then chatting before today for our podcast. I have really, really, I will tell you, enjoyed these two people so much. You're going to love them just like I do already when you get to hear them share their story and their passion about small business. You know, we talk a lot about corporate America here, and we should because of the things we do around retail, around Omnichannel. But you know, we will, every once in a while, we've got to do what 62 million people do that go to work at small businesses in America. Isn't that awesome? That is. You know, 62 million people. Well, all right, I need all of you to listen and join in to the podcast because 46% of the workforce uh is small business. And uh they in small business generates almost 53% of the net new jobs in America. So, you know, what I've asked our guests to do is to really share with you their passion and their purpose about what they're doing. But first, a bit of background before we get in. Okay. Doug and Ann, talk about yourselves and how you got to Northwest Arkansas. Awesome questions.
SPEAKER_02:Excellent. Well, I think I'm gonna take it really far back because I think it actually has purpose to the story of small business and entrepreneurship and why we are here. So I um actually was born overseas in Asia. I had parents that grew up in rural America. They, my dad was on a farm. Um, the towns they grew up in didn't have a stoplight. And they got this trouble bug as they got older and went overseas. And so my dad got his MBA, got into international business, fell in love with it. Um, and they went to a few different Asian countries, which is where almost all of my childhood was. And I think it gave me a true appreciation for curiosity about the world, about different ways business can occur. And then I came back for undergrad to Washington State, went into the healthcare, was passionate about health and wellness, took some time to kind of explore that. And in my first job, um, I actually really lucked out and had a small business, female-owned small business that hired me out of graduate school. And she saw pretty early on a desire to kind of learn more about the business side and what a small business does. And I will say I was hooked early on, first job. I loved it. I loved that you get to wear all these different hats. I actually loved that there are, it's not necessarily a rigid, you fit this box, but you really see the fluidity of what the career and what the business entails and how you can change it. So I kind of worked through different small businesses and eventually created a startup with another female um business owner. We started our own physical therapy practice. And um, we were chatting a little bit earlier about kind of that struggle as two young 30-year-old small business owners securing loans, figuring out the startup world, how to build this practice. We ran it successfully for 10 years and then sold it. And so I think we have experience both on the startup side, wearing all the hats in the small business, and then the sales side too, and why sometimes it's ready in the right time to turn it over to someone else. And then through the into that process, um, realized I needed a few more tools in my tool belt from a leadership standpoint and wanted a little more growth um from the business side. So went back to get my MBA at Foster School of Business in Washington State. And that's where our paths crossed. So we'll let you kind of weave into this.
SPEAKER_00:Great background. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, and so my background is somewhat similar. Grew up on a farm uh in the heart of the country here. Uh my dad was a farmer and had his own small business in forestry and fell in love with that, was around business all the time. Uh pursued an engineering degree, uh then went back into engineering and also had some small businesses along the way, uh, several of which failed less successfully than An's did. Um made a jump to Alaska for 10 years and was part and owner in a business there as well in engineering. Um, and then went back for my MBA and thus connected with Anne, and she came to Alaska for a while. But uh, we were ready to make the jump out of Alaska uh into a little bit better climate. Uh pursue some different opportunities. And Northwest Arkansas wasn't originally on the list when we started looking, but the more we started looking and had an opportunity that presented itself, and so fell in love with it and just love the business climate here, but also it's beautiful here and it's an amazing place to be. So we're here to stay. We've settled into the Bella Vista area, and now we're looking to get back into business in this area. Well, welcome to Northwest Arkansas.
SPEAKER_01:We're glad you're here, okay? And uh now to our viewers, you all, if you you heard their backgrounds, you heard what they've done, now you have a passion, and you're going now to take that idea and passion of yours, and you're gonna go to work. Talk about your mission statement around your organization.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I'll give a little background to that mission statement and let Ann have the punchline on it. Uh there are almost 6,000 small businesses in Benton County. Um, 40% of them are owned by boomers. And that puts us with having somewhere around 2,400 businesses that are looking to make a transition in the coming years as boomers look to retire. Um, and rather than us trying to create a business to compete with them in the startup world again, what we'd rather do is connect with them, help them with that transition, and continue that legacy. We'd love to buy a business and continue what they're doing than to try to create a business and compete with them. And so that's where our passion is. And so our mission statement is to Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So we thought a lot about this and our passion. Um, so it's to preserve the heart of the local community by acquiring and buying small businesses. And in that, I think it's really like Doug said, preserving the heart of the community. You brought it up earlier, you know, heath are small businesses. They really are. There's a reason they say they're the backbone of our, you know, society in our communities. And I think, you know, in Bentonville, in Arkansas, we know we have some huge businesses that are pillar and really important to the economy here. But also this part of choosing Northwest Arkansas to land and why we've fallen in love with this community is there is a really strong entrepreneurial small business community here too.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And you spoke about that as well. And that draw and that innovation, that energy is something we want to be a part of and really in the acquisition side of entrepreneurship that we want to preserve as he spoke about, rather than necessarily start up something new.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, I want you to repeat that mission statement one more time. Uh I really want our guests and our viewers to to get what you're talking about because we're gonna what we'll be able to do uh to our viewers, we're gonna dive in deeper. Okay. And we're gonna get in underneath this a bit. And I think you I think if today, if you're a small business uh leader owner today, uh you got to lean into this because we're gonna give you some very helpful information. And and then what I've asked our guests to do down the road is that we may even come back and give you a bunch more, or you can connect, and definitely you need to connect with these two individuals. But one more time, talk about say that mission.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so at 5W's our mission is to preserve the heart of our local community by buying and acquiring small businesses.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. Okay. And thing that you said, Doug, is that also this opportunity for you to come alongside this. You know, and in in my research, uh, after we had our visit, you know, prior to today, um, there's some headwinds out there uh against small businesses. Um, you know, you know, there's over a million small businesses that that open every year in America, but there's not 900 of them, 900,000 fail. So there's some headwinds there. The other headwind is where what what they talked about is, and I really want you to get into this, is where the transition from family, you know, a family-owned business to family, and and does that two-thirds of those businesses lack a documented secession plan. And and then 70 percent, this is national numbers, but 70 percent they want to pass it to the next gen, but only 30 percent ends up passing it to the next gen. So let's talk about that, okay? And and and and again, how do we help our guests, our viewers have asked? So you guys talk about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's tough numbers. And you know, it puts us in a place where a lot of these businesses are at risk of disappearing. You know, and these businesses, like Ann was talking about, are the pillars of the community. These are our local dry cleaners, our local plumbers, electricians, all of these small businesses that make our world go round. Um and in some cases, you know, I read a statistic that similar to what you had, that 70% want to pass it on. Only 30% have a succession, are able to do that successfully because they don't have a plan worked out for it. And things happen. Life happens, uh unexpected illness, change and um change in the winds, and things struggle. So we're there's resources out there though, for folks. There's resources available for the small businesses to help them start preparing for that plan and executing that plan, whether that's to pass it on to their children and to the next generation within the family, or to pass it on to someone else if their children are unable or unwilling to do that, which this is awesome in that you know, we've seen a shift over time with a lot of the boomers' children are going to college, finding their own careers and paths, but fewer are taking up the family business. So passing on to the children and in the family is harder than it was in the past. And so putting together a plan and having those thoughts about where you want to head with it can help a lot.
SPEAKER_01:You all work with companies to do that. Do you do you do you sit down with them?
SPEAKER_02:That is definitely an important part. So we are not necessarily business brokers ourselves that can do that valuation, but we have built a strong network here in Northwest Arkansas to do that. Sometimes there's a need for that piece to come in to do a formal evaluation. Sometimes that can be directly to us sitting down and working through. Here's how we value it. Here's the the pieces of the puzzle that go in, that we can have those conversations. And, you know, it doesn't have to go to that level. So I think though it's definitely an option and we've got great resources that we can share, you know, with them. If that is something that they would approach us saying, hey, I don't know where to go with this. The average they say is from when you first start to think about selling that business and what should my plan be. It takes three years usually to get to that point where it actually turns over ready to sell. So there's a lot that can go into that in terms of what that preparation looks like for your family, for the business, um, even just from the number standpoint to get more value. We're going to get into the numbers now, but out of the business, that what you do for tax purposes for your numbers and you're running your business successfully is actually different than what you know you might do to sell and get a higher multiple. So what you might want to sell for. So there's different strategies that someone that is interested on that side to what is that next step for me? Using those resources and getting that information to set yourself up for success.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a lot of fun. Yes. You know, but it's also hard sometimes, you know. Like Anne was saying, the things we do as small business owners to help us from a tax advantage standpoint uh can hurt us from a sales standpoint. You're not going to turn that business over internally to a child. Um so taking a look at where you want to be, how you want to get there, and what you can do to set that business up for success is important.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Someone's l someone watching or listening to us today says, okay, I'm here, I'm in this space. You know, I'm in this crossroads, right? So um how do they reach you?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So how do they find you?
SPEAKER_02:So right now we've been using LinkedIn as our primary connection source. So through LinkedIn, but we'll all I know you guys are probably tag it and have it in the information, but you know, both of us are accessible that way through our emails. You know, we we really want to be approachable in this. And that's, I think the biggest thing there is when you are looking at, hey, I own this small business, I don't know what to do. I'm kind of interested in selling it. Are we the right fit, even? You know, reaching out and like this goes back to being approachable and kind of curious, having the conversation to start. And we'll be really honest, if we're the right fit and we all discover, hey, we are, let's keep that conversation going. If it's not, then we also want to be a resource for people that we've learned trends tremendous amount through this experience. But also, okay, what maybe we're not the right fit, but what is the right next step to set you off on the right path there?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Okay. Well, yeah, we'll make sure we we we'll publish uh their email and uh we'll put we'll publish their the website that they're using. And of course, you can like as you said on social media on the end. We'll make it the okay, now when you go in, when you look at these small businesses and you you look at it, is there any any sometimes you say, look, here's some things you can do, you know, and do you talk about that? So talk about some of that, how you could help small business if you come just come in beside them. Do you do you do that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Uh so like one of the businesses that we've talked with, um, the owner wanted to step away and focus in more just on real estate. Um different point in his career, and he was willing to step away. And one of the challenges that we had and that we talked to him about is he was gonna take the manager with him in the business. And that was gonna make it really hard for someone else to come in and take over the business for him if he didn't have some continuity in staff. Um, and so that turnover and staff was a really simple thing that that person could address to make sure that the business is accessible after he leaves. You know, if the whole team is gonna go with him, well then the business fails to live on. So uh so that was one example of a simple human resource thing that he could do uh to improve the business. And then another example of places where we've talked to owners and had feedback with them. Um we had a business that we looked at and were talking with that was carrying a lot of expenses for vehicles and rent on a property that they owned. And from a tax standpoint, they were maximizing um their efficiencies from taxes. Um, but it was creating a negative effect in their bottom line. So making adjustments into how they're handling their tax preparation and how they're handling how they're carrying expenses uh would have helped that business be more marketable, appear more profitable. So um so those are some examples.
SPEAKER_01:Well I think that what you are in what both of you are with your company, and is that you're able and you're passionate about coming on the side of small business, looking at that small business, evaluating that, and maybe giving owners right now, they don't feel there's options out there, some options to to review and do that, right? And I think that's I think that's encouraging. And uh because, you know, when I, you know, in my research on small businesses, you know, there are the headwinds, no question that that you're facing today. I mean, it's very difficult today, you know. And we have even though our economy is strong, there's still a lot of headwinds right now that that companies are facing from everything from tariffs to uh inflation opportunities and rising costs, et cetera. So my suggestion if you're in a small business today and you're facing some of these headwinds, um, what you need to do is reach out to Duggan In. And let them uh evaluate, talk to them, let them maybe they can give you some advice, or again, it might be an opportunity for you to transition your company somehow. And what they are, they're help to you, their support to you. So, all right. So uh now talk about the future. Let's talk a bit about the future. Um, where do you see you guys going? You're new here in Northwest Arkansas. So I said on the front of the show, um so incredible. I'm so um uh one it's so wonderful I had the opportunity to meet you and get to know and getting to know you. Talk about what your pa what your future looks like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. Um, yeah, so I think, I mean, one, I think if we've learned anything in small businesses, it's fluid, right? We may have this dream and these ideas, but also I think being a good entrepreneur means you're flexible and you're willing to kind of work within the change and regroup, decide what the best fit is. So if you ask that what we sitting right here, right now, what we see. So our goal is to we're we're early in this startup phase of our business. So we have not acquired a small business yet. That's our goal. And we want it to be the right fit, right fit where it matches what our needs are and our right fit for the business and the culture that we're we want to continue to build and build off that legacy for those small business owners. So our eventual goal is to be able to kind of from a leadership standpoint and small business community, eventually that might look like multiple small businesses. Some of our mentors in this space have shown us, you know, that you can do that and do that successfully. Um, and depends on the size of the business you're acquiring, as Doug was talking about, you know, making sure there are strong managers and, you know, in place, or that we can grow those strong managers. That is one of our passions too, is being able to grow leaders. And I think being in that ownership seat, that's part of what we love about small business is how do you grow people? Um, and small business is such a great space to be able to do that and see their passion and share what we've learned in the business community and really foster that. And I think that fosters it on both sides.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and the thing, the other thing that I know we talked about that I know a lot of the small businesses that, you know, there's more and more women, women today that are owning and going into small business and owning small businesses. I know that's a passion of yours. You shared that before.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, you see my eyes light up with that. Yes. Right. So that definitely is uh a personal passion of five W's, myself. I, as I spoke about earlier, kind of tying back to that first job and female own business. And I got to both see her as a mentor, but also develop myself. And I've been lucky to work for a few different small businesses with strong females. And then myself and my business partner, when we started our business in our 30s and doing this as you know, minorities, um, that is a passion. When we started out with five Ws, we elected to make it a woman-owned business. So minority 51% is because that passion we believe in. Um, and believe in giving back to other people and and giving them the chance to thrive and grow and learn.
SPEAKER_01:Good. Well, uh, you know, to uh to our to our viewers, uh, my daughter, uh she just recently uh with a uh female business partner, she's opened her business. So I want to introduce you to them at some point. And uh I know you all would um enjoy that. I know they would enjoy meeting you too on that that whole area. So because they're in that space and they're loving it. Yeah. But there are the they are uh the there's a lot of challenges. It is a good challenges. So I would recommend the women today listen to us to to definitely reach out to Doug and and and and I know you would enjoy that too as well. Okay, as we wrap, um talk to us about um anything on your mind and anything in futuristic, but anything else you'd like to say to the small business owners that are listening to us today. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think just that, you know, we are we share the passion, right? We understand we've been in your shoes. And so I think there's something about walking in those shoes, you know, as a small business owner and somebody that then has really put a lot of effort and um energy into exploring the entrepreneurial side and and what re you know resources we can be to them and for them to be able to help them on this journey, even if that's just like I said, having a cup of coffee and having a conversation of where do I go? I'm not sure what what to do. We believe in, like we said, preserving that heart of our community and keeping them going. And so if it's just feeling like, gosh, there aren't any options, I'm just gonna close my doors as the option of the next step. My kids don't want it, one of my employees isn't wanting to take over the small business. I'm ready to plan that next step, knowing that there are options that do exist and can you as having been there and knowing and speaking to a lot of small business owners, you put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into that. And you genuinely care. And so having somebody that's going to treat that with the utmost care as well, um, I think is a really important piece to most business owners and what where is my legacy and that there is an answer for that.
SPEAKER_01:It's wonderful.
SPEAKER_00:The battle's real every day. Yes, yes. Small business owner, you're into the heat of the battle every day. You're putting out the fires, you're keeping the lights on. Um, and sometimes it's hard to think three years to the future to the transition. But uh yeah, always happy to chat, do whatever we can to help.
SPEAKER_01:Wonderful. It's been so wonderful having you on doing business in Bitonville. Thank you. Thank you both. And again, as I said at the top of the show, it's been uh it's just a privilege to have met you and getting to know you some and spending time with you. I hope this is will not be our last podcast together and our last conversation together because I look forward to keeping up with you and and and seeing how you're doing in your business. And then uh I want you to come back and talk to us again about this some at some point, what you're learning. Yes, and share some of those things with our. Would you do that? We would love to. Okay, I have it, I have that on tape. Okay, good.
SPEAKER_02:He's got it locked in. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01:And okay, failures and successes. I love it. Well, you're both wonderful people. Welcome to Northwest Arkansas, and I'm glad you're here. And uh to all of our viewers, thank you. Thank you, thank you so much. Uh again, uh keep doing what you're doing, uh, listening and watching and sharing our podcast with you because of you, um, you're making uh you're making us successful. So we appreciate that so much. Again, Doug, and thank you. Thank you. Great job today. Yes, thank you. Thank you, everyone. Have a good day.