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The Doing Business in Bentonville Podcast
To create an ecosystem that connects leaders of all kinds – industry, community, student, educational, civic, investment and entrepreneurial – to help overcome Omnichannel Retail barriers through exclusive, insight-rich content.
The Doing Business in Bentonville Podcast
Ep. 119 - The Risky Bet That Changed Retail Forever
Discover the remarkable journey of collaboration between Procter & Gamble and Walmart in our latest podcast episode featuring industry expert Tom Muccio. Unpacking the pivotal moments that shaped this partnership, we delve into the complexities of change management, shared objectives, and overcoming resistance. As Tom shares his experiences from Cincinnati to Bentonville, he draws important lessons on fostering transparency and trust within organizations.
Our discussion reveals insights about the One Company Model, a revolutionary approach emphasizing unity over competition, and how this framework can benefit modern businesses. Moreover, Tom elaborates on the five dragons that leaders often confront, such as corporate fog and bureaucratic hurdles, exposing the pain points that can stifle innovation and collaboration.
The episode is packed with practical strategies designed to inspire leaders to embrace servant leadership, humility, and the art of testing new ideas. Join us for a thought-provoking exploration into what it takes to navigate challenges in the corporate landscape, build effective relationships, and ultimately drive success for all parties involved.
Don't miss out, subscribe, share, and leave your thoughts on our conversation as we continue to explore transformational leadership and business relationships in upcoming episodes!
Well, hello everyone and welcome to Doing Business in Bentonville. I'm Andy Wilson and I'm the host today. It's so great that you've joined us. Thank you so much. And to all our viewers and listeners I want to say thank you. It means so much that you are not only just tuning us in, but you're writing about us, and we appreciate that, and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to reach out to me on linkedin and because of your support, we're now viewed in over 90 countries. So thank you, thank you so much. We have got such a great uh podcast today. I want to just get get into it right away.
Speaker 2:Tom lucio, welcome, uh, I'm glad to be here with you. Always nice to hook up with old friends that work together in the trenches. Yes, I love it.
Speaker 1:Okay, listen today, this podcast. I'm telling you you're going to dig in because not only we're going to actually record two today, we have so much to talk about. So this is podcast one and we'll be posting uh this very soon. But I will tell you, uh, it's such an honor and pleasure, tom, to be with you. And we go way back. You know I don't know how many years tom uh, 30, 35 years, five years. Okay, my first net, tom, lucio uh. But tom uh and he, I won't go. I'm not going to get into this because I won't be able to tell the whole story, but when I met Tom, he showed up at Walmart back in the day and he was one of the first suppliers to relocate, build an office in Northwest Arkansas and, wow, what a ride that went on and changed everything around supplier business with Walmart. Tom, you really did such a great job, and your team, and we're going to get into that asset. Now here's what we want to do today.
Speaker 1:Tom has just published a new book and it's a great book. He's going to talk about it. I will tell you I really enjoyed it. It was such a book about. First of all, it's a great leadership book and I recommend it from a leadership standpoint, but from a strategy and, tom, I mean, if I was running any business today, I would get that book and I would read it and I would use it and apply it, because you can apply the principles to your business and to your people in the business. So I want you to get into that book, okay, tom? Okay. So let's get started and let's go back and let's tell the story, because I think the story is so important to build our foundation on how you got to Northwest Arkansas and walk us through what I love that you call the five acts. That's a good one.
Speaker 2:So again, welcome Tom, take it away, terrific Well yeah, I got here on a long journey and it started back in Cincinnati. Well, first of all, just to give you a nickel's worth here, p&g was the biggest consumer products company in the world, most successful, and we did three things really well. We understood what consumers wanted, we built unbelievable products and then we had soap operas in all the advertising trading markets for the product. Our retail partners weren't even partners in those days. They were just kind of a pickup point, and so that's one of the stars of the show. The other star of the show, walmart, and they were this upstart.
Speaker 2:Retail was going through a transition at that point in time. There were super centers and club stores and discounters and whatever, and Walmart in Bentonville, arkansas, had this idea of let's lower prices every day and we'll find efficiencies that allow us to do that and still make money, which was a crazy idea and the only one ever trying to do that and still make money, which was a crazy idea and the only one ever tried to do that. In those days, the consumer product companies had much more of the leverage, so to speak, versus the retailers. So that was kind of the background, and at P&G we had a new person come in to be our global head of sales, and this person had worked for five or six years as the president of our Philippines operation in business, the way we've done it for 25 years. Everybody said, well, it's still working, why wouldn't we do it? He said, well, look at all these changes. There's technology, there's the retail markets going through. I don't think this is. I think we need to be looking forward. What should we be doing in 2000 with our customers?
Speaker 2:So I was at the time one of eight national sales managers. I was leading the food division and each of those divisions were basically independent. They had their own policies and whatever. But to Walmart, all the invoices said Procter Gamble, but we were really eight faces that they had to deal with and the policies didn't line up. So that was that story.
Speaker 2:So, anyhow, this individual, lou Pritchett, said I need someone to lead a team to figure out how do we go to market in the year 2000. And my boss at the time says well, you looking for. He said I need someone who can think outside the box, someone who's courageous, someone who's resilient, because this isn't going to be easy. My boss, mike milligan, said I got just a guy for you, and so I ended up starting with this, leading this multifunctional team, and and it was amazing what we learned, because what we started is we took apart P&G strengths, weakness we looked at competitors, we looked at other businesses and it was amazing what we found. I mean a little thing like every day Merrill Lynch could tell you what your portfolio and every stock was worth. We didn't. We couldn't tell what we shipped to Walmart until three weeks after the month ended, but we kept seeing where there were places, soft spots and whatever.
Speaker 2:And then what we did is we brought in a change expert that helped coach me and futurists in each of the product, each of the functions. So we would say, well, what's going to happen with supply chain? What are the challenges? And so we put all of that kind of together and the change agent person got me to start a steering team, which was more not the highest hearing team, which was, you know, more, not the highest level, necessarily, but from the different functions and the different categories and product divisions. And what we did is every two weeks we would meet with them, have lunch and we would update them. Here's what we learned the last two weeks so they could push back, ask questions and whatever, but it didn't guarantee we were going to get a pre-angle, but it did help to start getting the discussion going, and the two big buzzwords at that in that time were total quality everybody was talking about total quality and paradigm. That was the other, that was the other right. Other big work and paradigm is just a set of principles or theories of how you do something and, um, so the uh, it was just, you know, it was amazing.
Speaker 2:Um, so we this, our team came up with a recommendation. They had three big points to it we need to go to market multifunctionally. We need to do it with systemic alignment with our customers, which we weren't sure how to do, that, but that was a principle. And then, lastly, co-location co-location of the team and co-location with our customers, which, um, you know it, typically in companies multifunctional, the team isn't all together. You know, supply chain is over here, it is over here and they get together for meetings. But we said no, we need to be in the same place. So we made a recommendation. People said thank you for playing, took the recommendation and because nobody wanted to change in the senior group of png, right, it's working, we don't need to. This is a challenge the way we're doing this.
Speaker 2:So at the same time that that was going on at png, walmart is png's walmart's largest customer and sam is so frustrated that he can't get anybody. Well, one of my colleagues said P&G could have been a Mercedes, but we made it eight bicycles. And Sam would say if I want to punish one of my buyers, I put him on the P&G business. Oh man, Other members, yes, I remember yes. And so he finally said I'm going to motivate him to do this. So he said can anybody come up with something that P&G has done that we can offer them a big award, which was the Vendor of the Year Award? Well, someone came up with something, and so Sam calls our CEO John Smale at the time. But John's administrator wouldn't put him through because our CEO didn't talk with customers and she didn't know who Sam Walton was. So he was transferred around to the various national sales managers and finally he just gave up and gave the award to somebody else.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, this guy who put me on the multifunctional team had a friend in Bentonville and played tennis with Sam Walton. Very great, george Billingsley was the individual's name. Well, george, lou and Sam were all Eagle Scouts. And so he said can you get me in a meeting with Sam? I don't know anything about his company, I just come back from the Philippines. And George said well, you don't want to meet him in his office? He's not an office person, but every year we do a float trip. I'll get you invited to the float trip, you and Barbara. So that's how they got together.
Speaker 2:Sam expressed his frustration and of course, p&g at the time was very arrogant. There was a good idea, we'd give it to you. And so we were just going through total quality as a company and we had edward deming had designed this course, everybody from png was going through it. And so lou said sam, I've got a good idea. Why don't you bring your executive team to cincinnati and I'll get a group of png execs and we'll go through this together. The total quality session.
Speaker 2:Sam was desperate. I mean, the last thing Walmart people did was spend three or four days in the conference room. That just was not the DNA. So big investment and they go and there's great interchange, lively discussion, and at the end of it Sam stands up and says to John John, let's do this thing. Our CEO says let's do what Sam. He said let's do this total quality thing between our two companies. Well, because we were eight different divisions, he said I'll get back to you.
Speaker 2:And then some senior executives got together and they said we got to do something. There's a lot of corporate ego on the line here. And what are we going to do? Well, they said well, the only thing we have is this recommendation from Muccio's team. So a bunch of the senior executives said it won't work, but we'll get credit for having done something different. Let's set it up so that it's a test. We'll evaluate it at the end of the year.
Speaker 2:Well, sam was looking for a permanent change, but he'd take what he could get. Well, that's what. Then we took our team and we then came down for a couple of weeks and met with all kinds of people with Walmart, so that we could put flesh on the bone. What does systemic alignment look like? What does multifunctional look like? What would it take to get started?
Speaker 2:Well, as a group then we had what we called a mirror team, people from Walmart that had the same functions, and we worked together, kind of like a board of directors of this new relationship. And it worked so well that at the end of the year. Even the naysayers at P&G had to say, okay, it's going to be made, we're going to make it permanent. And then it was all about how do we expand it? Well, we expanded it to other retailers, walmart expanded it to other suppliers. We looked at expanding it then to the countries, as Walmart went international. So then between P&G and Walmart, and that's how it's happening. And from the first team I think he's told me there's 2,000 supplier teams now in northwest Arkansas, 2,000 plus. Yeah, so that's how it all got.
Speaker 1:How old year did this all happen? What was the timeline?
Speaker 2:87 was when our team originally got together, the multifunctional team, and then it was about between 88 and 89 that we then started dialing in more and actually started the team like I think, 89.
Speaker 1:So it took about two years of work right between both companies to get this done. And then when did you move to Northwest Arkansas and open?
Speaker 2:Well, we actually started moving resources in 89. Okay, that first year I had an office here and an office in cincinnati, because I had to hook up the wires in cincinnati. I had a lot of battles with funding and those kind of things, so I'd spent half my time here and half my time inside, but we did have a team on the ground. We were starting to work, uh, this mirror team concept and it's uh, it was it's really very interesting. If you think about um, you can take your watch apart, you can have all the pieces here and you can say, look at, I've got all the pieces in the watch, but it's not a watch until you assemble it right. And that's what we had to do between the two companies is, we had all the pieces but we had to assemble it together to make it work.
Speaker 1:So you know for our viewers, tom, if you look back, and it's a two-plus-year process to get this started and then we're going to get into when it started, and all that because this is so good as you look back, is there any way to move that forward faster?
Speaker 2:Well, we had resistance in both companies and plus, it never had been done before. So there was a lot of that's not how we do business. At Walmart, the challenge was we had great support at the top the CEO support but as you got down to that next layer of operational people that were responsible for a function or a business unit, they saw this as a real challenge to them and to their authorities. What's this going to mean to the way I do something? At Walmart, the big issue was I don't think P&G will ever change. I think we're just wasting our time. And at P&G, it was the fact that they didn't want to have changes that were going to affect, or potentially affect negatively, what they perceived were the way they were doing business.
Speaker 1:So your biggest challenge in that space we're talking about now no, that space of getting this done, created, getting ready to move forward your biggest, biggest challenge, what was your was?
Speaker 2:it. Biggest challenge was getting people to recognize that it was broken, and particularly at that level, and then being willing to give enough rope be able to try something different. You know along the way.
Speaker 1:So, as our viewers listen to this and they're trying to work through this type of situation, I think their learning here is that it's going to be very difficult, but you just got to keep persevering, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And I found that we dealt with five dragons and that those dragons since I've been doing consulting you see a lot of this in most companies Right? And the five dragons are the first one I call corporate fog. And corporate fog is that the senior officers of a company do not know what it's like to be a supplier or customer of their own company. And so, if I make the joke, if they had to be a customer of themselves, they'd probably switch suppliers. And then the second thing this corporate fog does is the people doing the work are doing this. They're saying do you realize the pain points? Do you realize the missed opportunity? Because the fog is so thick they can't see that. So people say, well, how do you get rid of fog? I say, well, how does nature get rid of fog? The sun shines and it melts it away, and then you can see reality. Well, in the business world it is let's get to the truth. Once you get to the truth and reality, there's many options of how to solve it. So that was the first one. Second, the second dragon and I was using these in 89, so I think Trump got them for me First was the deep state, and the deep state were people that felt threatened by this idea because it was going to, all of a sudden, make them have to do something different from them just being in total control.
Speaker 2:Then there was the swamp, which is the bureaucracy, and everything was so hard to get done. And then the next one was the Flat Earth Society, and so I've seen the map. If you go off here, it'll never work. So I don't even want to try it because I know what's going to happen it won't work. And then the one that I had the least patience for was the loyal opposition. Despite the fact that you were making progress, they'd find fault with anything that wasn't quite perfect, and I mean they wouldn't see the forest for the trees.
Speaker 1:I think those are five great points. And you know, I know when I've been in the fog, uh, and what happens is this you know, if you're driving in your car and you're brightening your lights and the fog it gets worse, yeah, it seems like the more that's. What happens in business is that we brighten the lights and it gets worse, so we even lose our weight even more in the fog. I'd love, so I love your five points. Those are great. I hope you, uh, and I, I hope everyone's taking notes for that. If not, you can check on our website. Okay Now, tom, that's a great setup talking about how you got to Northwest Arkansas, and we're going to get into that. But let's talk about your book, okay, because that's really huge. And first, congratulations on authoring your book. I'm really proud for you. It's a great book, everyone. And why don't you talk a bit about your book? And let's get into some? Back into that one company model, the change management piece, uh, the different themes in the book. So, introduce your book and let's talk about it.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all it. I, I'm a narrator of a story that has a thousand fingerprints on it from both of these companies, so I, I just have to be there from the start. So, and and we you know, we've been challenged to write the book, tell the story. And one of the former CEOs of P&G said you got to tell the story because there'll be a gap in Walmart and a gap in P&G history. You can't get where they are today from where they were without filling in this gap, and so that finally motivated me. I said that the people's story is worth, is it's important to tell the story, and I basically had five audiences in mind.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be able to challenge C-suite, saying there's a better way of doing business. Collaboration is much better than transactional. I wanted to be a support for team leaders today, saying here are some suggestions and some ideas. I wanted to provide things for aspiring leaders and leaders. It's also was a history book. I mean, I've had people say this is to retailing what the assembly line from Henry Ford was to manufacturing. And then, last, I wanted to make it a fun read so that as people read it they would bring a smile to their face. They either would recognize some of that in their own company, uh or uh, but they would. They would enjoy reading. So that that's the background for Wonderful.
Speaker 1:I love it. Oh great, well. Well, let's get into, um, you know, we, I think you gave us really good, good overview, um, you know, early on and so, so let's, let's talk about, you know, uh, the themes of the book, or or get into some of the transformational relationships and some of that, because I think those are wonderful stories.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, uh, we uh started out with. I mean, sam walton really gave us the, the, the, the way of thinking about it. He said if you thought of my stores as an extension of your company, we would do business entirely differently. And that really was a piece of magic, because we were transactional. Everything was one of us would win, one of us would lose, everything was short term. The only people involved were the buyers and the salesperson, and so you had all these resources in the companies that weren't being brought to bear. And so we then said, okay, we're going to call this the one company model. Now we realized that we're both working. For that. All of us were working for either P&G or Walmart. But we said, for the purpose of what we're trying to do, let's assume we're one company so that we can look honestly at every process, everything that we're doing, and say, well, that's broken here, here's a pain point over here, or here's a missed opportunity. Say, well, that's broken here, or here's a pain point over here, or here's a missed opportunity. And so that became the driving force.
Speaker 2:And then what we did is this group of the mirror team we're leading this from both companies. We came up with a joint vision, both companies. We came up with a joint vision. We came up with operating principles which were really very robust but very good, that really helped provide the guardrails that we could all be really open and transparent and safe at the same time. And we knew that anything that we were going to do had to make sense in both companies. So we came up with shared objectives that were I mean, both companies wanted to increase market share, they wanted to improve profitability, they wanted to eliminate unnecessary costs, they wanted to simplify the business relationship. They wanted to simplify the business relationship. So by doing that we were able to get started, and what we found out initially is how little we really knew about each other Wow.
Speaker 1:So I think that's a powerful point and one of the things I just want to underline for our viewers and listeners is this one company model. You know you'd have to and for you, on both sides, to really get down to it and to agree on this. You got to get all the personalities out of the way right. You got to get really focused on the one thing and that's that customer, your customer, and what sam always taught us was about the customer. You know, and I started, you know walmart running store in the training program but running stores, districts and all divisions and all that. But the thing is we never lost focus of who our customers. And I remember sam talking in the friday morning, friday management meetings and the the Saturday morning meetings, about everyone has a customer. But you didn't. But P&G didn't understand that.
Speaker 2:Well, we called it the consumer. Yeah, that's right, you didn't use the word. This is the person who uses our product. That was our focus. Walmart was about the shopper, the person that was buying. Yeah, and one of our CEOs, ag Lafley, eventually came to. He said there's two moments of truth. One moment of truth is does the product work as the way you advertise it? But he said that's the second moment of truth. The first moment of truth is do they buy it in the store? Wow, and so when we really realized that there's a huge overlap between the consumer and the shopper and we both both of the companies kept those, but they just called them something different and we didn't appreciate how each other were thinking about it.
Speaker 1:I think your idea around one, this whole idea around one company model, was incredible. I don't think you'd be successful if you hadn't come to an agreement with that. I agree, I think you would have failed. So I know that took a lot of work on both sides, because at Walmart at the time too and I spent some time in merchandising at Walmart I mean we did have this relationship where we would just sort of beat each other up, right, we would beat the supplier up, they'd beat, you know, they'd beat us up a little bit. And then you know, it was not this focus that you had created which not only helped E&G, but it also helped Walmart, right At the very you know. So it helped both companies Absolutely Okay. So I like that point, and I know you talk a bit about that in the book. And so the other thing I want you to talk about in the book is this change management process. Right, I can't imagine the barriers that you had to walk through in order to create this change management process. So can you talk about that?
Speaker 2:Yes, management process. So can you talk about that? Yes, well, I was very fortunate that when I did the first internal team, I had this person that helped me, was a change management expert and that's the one that started this steering team. So we took the same mentality and we said we need to be, in both companies, totally transparent. We want to invite your concerns. So if someone had a concern like P&G, oh, they're going to compromise our confidentiality and our products or we'll get co-opted and Walmart was you know, we'll get too close to the supplier and that doesn't work. So what we did is, in both companies, with the mirror team, we had a list. Here are the concerns people had. And what we did is we said you can bring forth any concern you want, but if we can provide you the data that should make that go away, will you let it go and not be Johnny One Note and keep beating us on that. So transparency was enormously.
Speaker 2:And then the second thing is we came up with anything that was important in either company. We measured so that we could, wherever we went in either company, measured so that we could, wherever we went in either company, we could say here's the impact of this, which is that's where multi-functionality really helped, because you had a view of supply chain will say, well, yeah, if you do this, uh, this is a benefit over here, or same thing. But you know operations, for instance. We didn't know anything about operations when we started. Which was a big driver of walmart's success was the, which was you were leading in that operations group. We didn't understand that at all, right, uh, but once we did, then we we were able to say, okay, here you know, you were looking, for instance, how do we reduce labor costs?
Speaker 2:Well, we came up with pre-built displays that would save money in the handling through the warehouse. It would save money in the stores because there would be a pallet, a product with a shrink wrap, display-ready cases, cross-dock in the DC. So it didn't even go to a holy ground, straight into a truck, unloaded in a pallet at the store, out to the selling area, take the saran wrap or whatever and sell it. What was the problem? The problem was the buyer got, he had to fill in a ton of paperwork. Every one of those was seen as a new item and so there was no reward for them for doing that. But that speaks to some of the way we had developed a relationship that we could kind of make fun of things and talk about it, and that was the days before a lot of security.
Speaker 2:So I had a. I could get a Walmart's executive row, no problem, and I had a check made like a golf check. This made out to Walmart for a million dollars and I stood there outside the break room the quail ring. Do you remember the quail? Oh yeah, I remember the quail ring. I didn't even want to go to the quail room, but quail room Do you remember the quail room? Oh yeah, I remember the quail room. I didn't want to go to the quail room, but I remember it.
Speaker 2:And Paul Carter, the CFO, came and he said Tom, what are you doing here? He had a cup of coffee in his hand. I said I had a million dollar check for Walmart, but I can't find any place that anybody will take it. He said come in my office. You found somebody. So he knew that there were. So he said okay, what's the game? And I explained to him. I said this idea saves 37 cents a case for walmart, but the buyer is is punished. So you got benefit over here, pain over here. He said I can fix that? I said well, how are you going to fix it? He said you tell me how many of these things we buy and what the benefit is, and I'll create. Half of that will go in the buyer's account, which was a good thing for the buyer, and the other half will just happen in the warehouse, in the store. We don't need to micromanage it, we know it's labor savings and whatever. We don't need to micromanage it, we know it's labor savings and whatever.
Speaker 2:So with a stroke of a pen he fixed it and it went from being a resistance from the buyers that they were knocking on the door saying, hey, could you do that in this product, hey, could you do it in? Well, do you think that didn't benefit P&G, having all those pre-built displays on end dials? That drove our business as well. So we spent the money to put them on the pallet. So people said, well, why are you doing that? Well, you know it's costing us more money to do. But then, when you looked at the benefit, walmart got a benefit and then P&G got a benefit and increased business. So it was things like that that you know, and those are the kind of things that build trust as well.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and we're going to get into trust in our next, in our next segment episode. I do want us to get into this collaborative disruption. I want us to talk about trust and overcoming obstacles and many more things, because I think there's such great learnings on your stories. So, as we begin to wrap this episode and let's go back a minute for our viewers and listeners, what, what would you, what are your top three learnings here in this segment?
Speaker 2:If you sort of summarize it, Well, one was probably my biggest personally was humility realizing that I was just one piece of a puzzle and nothing would happen if we didn't integrate those puzzle pieces together. And that led me really to have a bigger appreciation for servant leadership. And you know, one of my mentors, ken Blanchard, used to say remember that the sheep aren't there for the benefit of the shepherd. And Simon Sinek said it the other way being a leader isn't being in charge, it's being able to take care of the people that are in your charge. Right, yeah, so it's a was a whole mentality there then? Secondly, it was the power of testing.
Speaker 2:Okay, and if you're going to challenge the status quo, it seems very risky to people. So a way to de-risk a new idea or potential new idea is to find a way to test it where you can either fail quickly or you can. If it works, you can then scale it up because you know exactly what it costs, exactly what the benefit was, and one of the things that our two companies did whenever we did a test, we would start out with a success criteria. If, for this to work, what does it have to deliver for Walmart, what does it have to deliver for P&G? And that was important for two reasons.
Speaker 2:One is it kept you from falling in love with your own idea, even if it wasn't working Right, and secondly, it became a herniate rate that, if you cleared the hurdle, sometimes the temptation is oh yeah, I benefited here, but I really like it up here a little bit more. Well, you're changing the game that you started from, and so those were two. And then the power of multifunctional, because that's the way every company operates, but it's not the way they typically work with customers or suppliers, right, Right, so what happens is you, we could do dumb things that hurt someplace else in the system and never know it.
Speaker 1:Okay, wonderful, great summary, okay. So stay tuned everyone. We're going to have our next episode coming out really, really soon. Tom, again, I want to thank you so much for being here and I'm looking forward to our next segment together. Great, great learnings and I, as I think about you know by two great leaders able to, you know, communicate together. And then the company had a tremendous amount of trust in you in order to navigate this, because it had to be a win-win for both companies. Right, absolutely, and that was what you did. You were able. You, the P&G team, the Walmart team, the great men and women on both of those teams were able to walk through two years plus of work to get to where we're going to talk about in the next episode. So I know it's going to be awesome. So, tom Lucio, thank you so much. My pleasure, thanks, okay, everyone, thank you.
Speaker 1:Stay tuned for our next episode coming up, episode two. I will continue with Tom Lucio. We'll continue to talk about his book and about the learnings that he's going to share with us as we get really deep into this and he gets on the ground here in Northwest Arkansas with his team and all that's going to take place. You don't want to miss it. Thank you very much everyone. Again, thank you so much for all that you do and share DBB. Thank you, goodbye, everyone.